Exploring Creativity, AI, and the Future of Music with Chase Bethea | The Gamerheads Podcast

In this episode of the Gamerheads podcast, host Roger Reichardt welcomes back multi-award-winning video game composer Chase Bethea. They discuss Chase's extensive career in game music, including his experiences with live performances, the challenges of composing under pressure, and the emotional journey of conducting his own pieces. Chase reflects on the evolution of his creative process, the importance of enjoying the music, and the balance between professionalism and personal satisfaction in his work. In this conversation, Chase Bethea discusses the intricacies of composing music for video games, emphasizing the importance of creativity, curiosity, and understanding game design. He explores the challenges of creating unique soundscapes without existing examples, the role of mistakes in the creative process, and the significance of dynamic music that adapts to player actions. The discussion also touches on the potential impact of AI on music composition and the need for composers to maintain a human touch in their work. Finally, Bethea highlights innovations in game audio technology and the importance of collaboration in the industry.

Transcript

Roger Reichardt (00:01.132)
And welcome to another episode of the Gamerheads podcast. My name is Roger. This week, I have a very special guest. I have a returning guest, a multi award-winning video game composer who has helped ship 25 plus games, Chase Spathia. Thank you so much for joining me, coming back on the show.

Chase Bethea (00:22.636)
Roger, thank you so much for having me back. is an honor. is a joy. It is a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.

Roger Reichardt (00:30.18)
Yeah, thank you. I it's fun because before we recording we we just caught up and it's just I know it's just fun talking with you. I just enjoy having you on on the show and just chatting with you as a friend. So yeah, it's a real real joy having you on the show before we have a lot of questions. You saw my questions. You know I have a lot of questions.

Chase Bethea (00:40.92)
Likewise.

Chase Bethea (00:47.662)
Yeah, I've got questions. Questions are good. Good questions.

Roger Reichardt (00:52.294)
But if this is the first time anyone's like listened to this podcast and maybe they haven't heard our interview from earlier in the year. Yeah, first of all, go check it out, right? Yeah, like maybe just stop this one and go back to listen to the other one. But if you're short on time and you're just like, no, I just want to listen to this one. Chase, tell us a little bit about yourself before if this is the first time anybody's heard the podcast and heard anything about you.

Chase Bethea (01:01.294)
Go check it out.

Chase Bethea (01:14.573)
You

Chase Bethea (01:19.662)
Absolutely. Well, hi, Gamer Heads. I'm multi-award winning video game composer Chase Bethea. I've been working in industry, I'm going to say 14 years because next month is my 14th year anniversary. So we're to jump into that. I usually say, I got to give them a new day count. I usually say it's 4,745 days. So now we got to do a new day count.

You should. You should. You should. You should. I will tell you why after the recording why I do that. yeah, it has been a long time. And so I've shipped over, it'll be close to 30 games, I think, next year officially. I would have done five in two years. I just actually did an update saying something up.

Roger Reichardt (01:49.798)
I'm gonna do that for the Gamerheads podcast. I gotta keep track of how many days we've been on the air,

Roger Reichardt (02:00.334)
Okay, okay.

Roger Reichardt (02:08.998)
Wow. Wow.

Holy.

Chase Bethea (02:15.374)
And that's not even the ones that haven't come out that I can't talk about yet. overall, it's been cool. that's all. And I also gave about 55 talks in two and a half years, talking about from my behind the scenes work of how I write music for games to a topic that we're probably going to be talking about with one of your questions to the breakdown of dynamic music design that I do with game composition.

many other topics in terms that encompass the industry and game music itself.

Roger Reichardt (02:50.234)
Yeah. Yeah, I know that you've been very busy. Also, some of your music has been featured at different events as well. Can you talk about that?

Chase Bethea (03:01.324)
Yeah, so I am fortunate to have my work being performed live. And I've been getting that done more if it's not myself. I perform live in Vegas. And it's acoustic, more performance of piano, rendition from the game, Star Dander School for Wishes, which is a game that will be coming out next year. And also a different game, Sunken Stones, which I performed by the Virtual Video Game Orchestra at MagWest this year.

And I'm also going to be returning special guest, celebrity guest at MAGFest next month, next year. So hopefully maybe the ground music will be performed. Not a ground zero, but a ground. We'll see how that kind of goes. If not, I'll mostly be on panels and talking about retro gaming and things like that too. And I'm looking to amplify those live performances in some form or fashion as long as I have the energy to do so.

Roger Reichardt (03:55.652)
Yeah, yeah. That's so amazing to me to think about, you know, having your music performed by an orchestra. Like that must be so amazing and just so like, first of all, just like how amazing that is. But then to think about like having an orchestra perform your music. I see I was watching a couple of couple of videos of the orchestra playing and they turned to you and you're like, yeah, that was

That was good. know, like, like, what is that feeling like when you hear an orchestra play your music?

Chase Bethea (04:33.216)
It's a really cool feeling. actually just released the official video of that Magwa's performance on my YouTube channel yesterday. So, and it's doing quite well for not doing the extra hard push that I typically would do for promotion because I'm just, I'm so tuckered right now. But I, excuse me, from a small insight to maybe, hopefully, maybe a labor video. If I don't do that video, happy to share it with you as an exclusive, which is, I learned a lot.

Roger Reichardt (04:49.158)
Yeah

Chase Bethea (05:02.956)
The second time around, I conducted the piece last year with the Virtual Video Game Orchestra. And then the year before they performed the Star Dandruff for Witch as well. But last year I did a smaller ensemble with Deity Quest. And then when I worked with the Healers Collective, which was a small ensemble that performed my music, not once, but twice. Last year was the first appearance of it. And then this year was the second. And it was based off of an idea that I gave them to perform video game music. So I was the brainchild of that.

Roger Reichardt (05:28.503)
Mmm. Mmm.

Chase Bethea (05:31.982)
Ensemble for Helix Collective. But what I learned in the virtual video orchestra for the different pieces that and mention this is that I wrote the piece Pugnacity and Point Royale, which is the game developed by Sprite Ranch. It's called Sunken Stones. And it's kind of alluded to one of the questions you're talking about, like the Caribbean. But it has pirates, but it's not part of the Caribbean. I wrote it in 6-4 with time signature. And so if you're not familiar, 6-4 is

Roger Reichardt (05:51.621)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (05:58.171)
Mm.

Chase Bethea (06:01.228)
I'm doing a conducting thing. then here, it's not, it is not common for performers to perform that in that time. I didn't know. So when I wrote the piece and you listen to it on the bandcamp, it sounds great. It sounds really good, but they got to feel the pulse of what that rhythm is and it changes texture and timbre and I have to keep the time. And so.

Roger Reichardt (06:03.033)
Hahaha!

Roger Reichardt (06:08.759)
Mmm.

Mmm. Mmm.

Roger Reichardt (06:17.178)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (06:30.182)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (06:31.404)
you have to have some good amount of rehearsals. You know, only I knew the music, but they needed to know the music and they need to know it with me. And I had to just jump in and I got two rehearsals down to get it to a decent performance standard. And so it felt good once everyone locks in. but that first one, whoo. It's like, OK. And I used to be a conductor's assistant.

Roger Reichardt (06:38.112)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (06:51.845)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (06:59.51)
in my early years of going through the process. And so I conducted this very small ensemble and I had a good amount of rehearsals. And I also learned from the conductor who had the symphony orchestra and the community orchestra. But yeah, he never did, he did the normal repertoire of the classical music and never performed their own work. And so, yeah, it was, it was a learning experience because this was the community orchestra.

Roger Reichardt (07:16.933)
Yeah, yeah.

Chase Bethea (07:24.002)
You're not with them. I'm going in cold. don't really they know of me. They don't know me. They know how this is. They kind of played it separately. And I've got to just play Elmer's glue really fast.

Roger Reichardt (07:28.133)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (07:33.766)
Yeah

That's awesome. mean, but just like how exciting that must be that when it all comes together and standing up there and hearing your music playing back.

Chase Bethea (07:44.896)
When it comes to conducting, I don't ever really want to conduct it. I usually want to just be in the back and just absorb it, which is what happened the very first time with the orchestra the very first year at Mac West that I did three years ago. But conducting, what was the feeling? It's an out-of-body experience, really. It's a bit nerve-racking because you

Roger Reichardt (07:55.792)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (08:10.79)
Mmm. Mmm.

Chase Bethea (08:15.022)
I'm Roger. got to tell you, I only had two rehearsals. So I got in the day before from a plane and, and, and was there on time at least for this one and got with them and then you're just up there and they're like, yeah, you got like two minutes. I'm thinking it's like a four minute piece. So you have to know where the spots are calling in. And then the next verse was soundcheck, which means

Roger Reichardt (08:24.176)
Yeah. Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (08:36.558)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (08:42.83)
my gosh.

Chase Bethea (08:44.266)
after soundtrack, people are coming in to see the performance. So you do it again. so when you saw about this feeling of thinking, it feels good, but you got to feel good about the rehearsal to know you got to feel good. I think if you, have you seen the video yet? I think you've seen the behind the scenes when I posted on the short, but the official video, I got like a 360 video and the versions from the video.

Roger Reichardt (08:47.149)
my gosh. my gosh. my gosh.

Roger Reichardt (08:59.418)
Yeah.

No, I haven't seen this newest one yet, no.

Chase Bethea (09:12.664)
version of my camera and then Mag West camera. So it's a bit different perspectives. You can see me conducting, you can see the orchestra and things like that, but it feels good. I'm being on tangent. It feels good once it locks in, like I said, once it locks in, then you're like, okay, it's good. When people like it, I think that's when I understand, because I wrote it. And so I wrote it in solitude and then it was arranged and then I performed it like it grows and it grows and it grows into this thing where now the energy is being received.

Roger Reichardt (09:17.958)
Cool.

Roger Reichardt (09:33.614)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (09:39.29)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (09:41.676)
And if people enjoy it, that's when I feel good about it mostly. Like I like it, but I know that I hope other people like it too, right? It's supposed to be enjoyed sonically.

Roger Reichardt (09:41.915)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (09:52.89)
Yeah, yeah. Do they do they get an opportunity to like how soon do they get the music the musicians before like getting together?

Chase Bethea (10:04.578)
Virtual working specifically with Virtual Videogram Orchestra, they got the music in a good amount of time. think within, I would say within a month, just a decent time. And what I will give a good look on is that they had like this accountability channels. People had to record to show that they were practicing and to make sure that in every piece too. I think I had like a video from one of the...

Roger Reichardt (10:21.446)
Hmm.

Roger Reichardt (10:25.121)
Okay.

Chase Bethea (10:31.278)
One of the brass players came up to me at first and was like, man, this is great chart, man. It's amazing. He was like, cool. Thank you. And I remember seeing his accountability video. He was into it. So I was thinking, OK, yeah. The musicians have to like what they play. A lot of people don't know that. And if you're not a musician, if you don't like, I've seen, this is even for me being a video game composer. really not. I've seen.

Roger Reichardt (10:39.067)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (10:43.024)
Wow.

Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (10:54.852)
Ha ha ha!

Chase Bethea (10:58.05)
the Tchaikovsky pieces and the Brahms pieces being performed. And I see the looks on these musicians' faces. I could tell who doesn't like playing it, but they're just playing, they're there because they want to play and stuff. But if they don't like what they're playing, it's not going to sound good. And that's very important. It's so important.

Roger Reichardt (11:02.427)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (11:11.876)
Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. This is the difference between being technically sound and having your heart in the music as well. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (11:26.456)
Yes, yeah. Some people are just there to play, and some people are there to play. What is his name? His name is Pedro, but everyone knows him as Fluke Guy from the Game Awards. And so I met Pedro. I've seen him twice because I go to the National Association of Music Manufacturers, also known as NAMM. And so I've run into him a couple of times. I got a picture with him, and he's so nice, and he's so cool. I know him as Pedro, but everyone's like Fluke Guy.

Roger Reichardt (11:30.34)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Roger Reichardt (11:37.378)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. nice

Roger Reichardt (11:54.672)
That's okay. He's into it. Yeah, he's playing. He's playing. Yes, for sure. Yes, he is. And it's funny because he's become a celebrity almost from that, right? The first performance I remember seeing, it was like, whoa, this is amazing. And now like the camera seems to like always catch him, right? Like always like, yes. yeah. yeah. yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (11:55.214)
He's playing. He's there to play. That's what I'm Everyone's there to play, but he's there to play.

Yeah.

Chase Bethea (12:18.146)
He knows when it's on too. He's going crazy. He's such a nice guy though. So big love to Petio. He's so nice. He's really cool. He's expensive. So if you want to hire him for Flute, he told me straight up and I'm like, okay.

Roger Reichardt (12:25.05)
That's nice.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. Well, I mean, this is kind of this kind of ties into the next question that I have here for you then. Writing music. This is something that I was just thinking about. Is it stressful for you? Or is it relaxing? When you are writing music?

Chase Bethea (12:40.376)
Get the money.

Chase Bethea (12:59.278)
No, it's not relaxing. It was relaxing in 2000 something. It was relaxing when I was in my adolescence because it was a hobby. I was learning and there was no pressure for things. And like I said, I'm 4745 days plus in and every time I'm trying to ride above myself.

Roger Reichardt (13:01.946)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (13:28.014)
I want to do well for the project. What's good at the same time is I'm being challenged in a way that I don't really understand that I'm being challenged. So when I'm working with Spy Wrench, I'm giving these, write this bossa nova soundtrack, but it's supposed to kind of represent AI, but then it's supposed to be relaxing. But bossa nova doesn't really exist in game music. So make it happen. Oh, OK. I think I love it, but I've got to study now these things and I've now pioneered in this area. OK, well.

Roger Reichardt (13:45.574)
Mmm.

Roger Reichardt (13:51.014)
Mmm. Mmm.

Chase Bethea (13:56.974)
Remember, there's this whole franchise called Pirates of the Caribbean, but it doesn't have nothing to do with Pirates in the Caribbean. We're actually making a game in the Caribbean. So write this. Okay. Well, then that doesn't exist in game music. so now I've pioneered in that. And so it's not relaxing because I have to figure out what the foundation is from nothing. And I'm creating it myself. And then in a different project, now it's...

Roger Reichardt (14:05.35)
You

Roger Reichardt (14:08.89)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (14:22.266)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (14:25.152)
Okay, well, now we have a detective in the Caribbean and there's no real detective Caribbean music. So I created Caribbean noir and that's something new. So it's just different even on this other project I haven't announced yet, but now I've got it. I have to somehow match the energy and the esteem of Koshiro-san and make a

Roger Reichardt (14:32.409)
Hahaha!

Roger Reichardt (14:36.92)
That's awesome. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (14:53.814)
into a fantasy soundtrack in a way. And I'm thinking, okay, there's no pressure at all. There's no pressure. There's no pressure. I'm not even being hyperbolic. I'm not being facetious. It's just, you know, just match that iconic soundtrack. You could do it. Sure. So no, it's not relaxing by any means. I'm leveling it up. Game music in so many areas that I, it's taking longer.

Roger Reichardt (15:10.31)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Chase Bethea (15:23.916)
But it's taking longer for quality that I know people will enjoy for the next generation of game music enthusiasts like yourself and others that really appreciate it. And that's what I'm thankful for.

Roger Reichardt (15:33.594)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. mean, you? Yeah.

Chase Bethea (15:37.538)
I'll relax then when I'm, when you're happy about like when someone has to write it at my level for things like, did he do this? We've got it. I'll relax. So I was feeling okay.

Roger Reichardt (15:51.366)
Will you though? don't see this. This is you know, we've known each other for a year now. And I think I think one thing that I've picked up from you is that you you I think challenge yourself. Do you think do you think that that that pressure is a little bit I mean, sure, there's external pressures. But do you think a lot of the pressure comes internally? Because of me or I mean, you are, I don't want to say perfectionist, but you but you you're a professional, right? And I think that

Chase Bethea (15:54.51)
Yes.

Chase Bethea (16:01.998)
Yeah, I do.

Chase Bethea (16:19.246)
I'm a pr- correct.

Roger Reichardt (16:21.048)
And I think that that pressure, do you think that that's a little bit self-inflicted, I guess?

Chase Bethea (16:29.038)
Absolutely. You said the exact thing of what it feels like. And it's not because I'm a perfectionist. I know when to stop. I know when it's good. I know when to submit it. And it's right and it feels right and it feels good. But I am a professional. And the professionalism in me has a lot of integrity and a lot of quality that I know is in me to put forth and to deliver.

And with that, I have to measure myself accordingly because I've learned not everybody's really deserving of that level of things because it's not reciprocated. so I have to be careful of how much of that professionalism I give otherwise. It's not to say I can take back for it, but it's mostly just.

Roger Reichardt (17:08.346)
Hmm. Hmm.

Chase Bethea (17:22.754)
Where is the line and knowing when that's solid for that it meets their expectations and that's something that I'm

killing myself over.

Roger Reichardt (17:34.352)
Yeah, yeah. What do you do to help you relax though when you're not writing music?

Chase Bethea (17:42.388)
Nothing.

Roger Reichardt (17:43.63)
Nothing!

Roger Reichardt (17:48.304)
Do you color? Do you draw? Do you do other artistic stuff to kind of get you out of the mindset of music writing? No.

Chase Bethea (17:57.506)
The past, my last big push for everything I did this year, it stopped in November. October was, I think I don't even remember October really, but I know that mostly things were, when I thought things were packing up, then the projects were continuing on and I thinking, okay, but I had to push through them. And so that's when I was thinking like, I really.

Roger Reichardt (18:21.19)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (18:25.454)
It said the same thing for a ground and I like this when I was writing this like I have no idea what I'm doing I have no idea Where it's coming from I'm thankful. It's still being produced obviously there, but it's it's it's I Do nothing if I? from trying to just relax and literally have been in bed for them almost a couple months and still like writing believe it or not and because of the project that I have to put forth like the cribbing war the newest project that I'm on things like that, but

Roger Reichardt (18:31.174)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (18:54.478)
Other stuff, no, it's I'm doing nothing. that it's been good because it's the reset that I need to have in order to continue to put forth that professionalism that I know that I want to bring to the table, regardless of the measurements and the levels of things, because I know it's for me. have to, when I listen back to it, I have to be happy and proud of that work years forward. Like I have from the past 13 years.

When I was celebrated for the UK Black Composers Month this year, first time on a calendar on October 4th, I listened to my entire discography. I just let it rip. I was thinking. And as I was going through it, it was another out of body experience thinking, I wrote all of this. Like from the beginning of, from 13 years ago up to the recent...

Roger Reichardt (19:37.178)
Hmm. Hmm.

Chase Bethea (19:51.758)
time of today. I I was in my stuff that's not released and I was thinking, wow, I wrote a lot. I wrote a lot. it was cool to reflect on. And so I'm thinking, OK, I want the next 20 years or so that I'm still doing this to kind of be more and better and greater and to show forth that type of professionalism that I've been putting in since day one.

Roger Reichardt (19:59.344)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (20:18.662)
Do you ever listen to your old music and think, first of all, like, wow, I can't believe I wrote that. And secondly, like, would you ever go back and say, I'll make some changes here and there to my music that I wrote earlier.

Chase Bethea (20:33.388)
Right, the first, as to the first question I was saying, especially a few of them when I go back and listen to a few thinking, man, wow, what was I doing? And some of them have memory imprints of different emotions that I know that are time capsules. And so I know what I was going through at the time, why I was going through it. And so I'm able to kind of dive into those memories, but some of them that don't have those, I'm listening to it.

Roger Reichardt (20:53.84)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (21:02.176)
I remember sometimes if I'll listen to a specific VGM radio and I'll hear two notes, I'm thinking, I wrote that. thinking, I think I wrote that, but it's mostly my brain saying, this sounds familiar. And then I say, I wrote that. And sometimes something will come on and I'm who's that? that's me. yeah, wow. Yeah, that's wild stories.

Roger Reichardt (21:17.092)
Mmm. Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (21:24.496)
HAHAHAHA

Chase Bethea (21:32.366)
It's just a little bit of both, whereas I'm still surprised, but I'm still thinking, OK, yeah, you did do it. And I don't know. It's just an interesting shift. I did my first jingle for my dad's show, Smooth Jazz Cafe. He has it on Sundays. We hired a singer, and I had the singer on it. And so when he asked for it, I really

Roger Reichardt (21:48.507)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (21:59.522)
didn't know what I was going to do. just kind of played some chords and thought, okay, this works. And then I just kept adding little stuff and adding stuff, but I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't have an intent. I was just, okay, I think this sounds good. Okay, this, okay, that. All right, I think that's fine. And then we hired the singer and then it came together. And my dad asked like, how's it coming? And then I called him and I played it. He's like, that's amazing. And then my stepmom came on and she said, like, did you write that? And almost said no.

Roger Reichardt (22:27.27)
wow.

Chase Bethea (22:29.102)
because I just didn't, it didn't sound like something. It just, guess it didn't sound like me, but I would think, but I did write it. I played guitar and I played bass line on it, like real bass. And I played, what else? A couple other things on there. played, I've worked on all this, but I actually played live guitar. I have a bass now, played that, the bass line. And I was thinking, oh yeah, I guess I did write that. So it's just a little bit of.

Roger Reichardt (22:35.034)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (22:41.312)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Roger Reichardt (22:56.41)
Huh. Wow.

Chase Bethea (22:57.654)
at this point now. So it's where it's kind of where it's interesting shift. I don't know what's going on. I just know that it's hard to believe that I'm writing at the level I'm writing at.

Roger Reichardt (23:07.814)
Yeah, yeah, it seems like the muses are are working their magic I guess right so Oh, oh, oh

Chase Bethea (23:15.182)
Well, the muse unfortunately left. That's probably one of the things. The muse, the muse, no it's okay. It's no, it's all right. The muse has been gone for I think sometime around summer. But so whatever it is, I guess I'm left with the gifts. A friend of mine said this, hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

Roger Reichardt (23:32.07)
Sorry.

Roger Reichardt (23:42.406)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Chase Bethea (23:44.958)
And so yeah, I guess I'm on autopilot for hard work.

Roger Reichardt (23:48.161)
Hahaha!

Well, hopefully that lasts because yeah, that's, I just, I'm amazed at how like I listened to our conversation, our previous conversation before this interview again, and just to listen how your creative abilities and what you think about palettes and music palettes and sound palettes and stuff like that. It just blows my mind. And I just, I have no idea how you do it. I have no idea.

Chase Bethea (24:20.014)
My mom said that to me today. was thinking, I don't know how you wrote what you wrote and the stuff and things like that. The people who have very few people who, my mom has seen it. I used to stream on Twitch the process. I used to have the camera on and stuff. And someone else that was in my life used to, got to see what like the next to me process of how I'm doing it. they're amazed. And all I'm thinking is.

Like I said, the hard work is on autopilot. I'm just doing, and I'm still out of mind. Because when I used to write with intent and I had the structure and stuff, it was a different time. It was a different process. This was, let's say, seven, six years ago. Yeah, there was a way different type. But now...

Roger Reichardt (24:50.746)
Yeah, yeah.

Roger Reichardt (25:03.642)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (25:12.91)
I have to write it down, Roger. I actually wrote the creative process down because that's how much I don't understand what's going on. I had to write it down and under like 22 steps.

Roger Reichardt (25:20.505)
Wow.

Yeah, wow, wow, that's awesome.

That's that's yeah, it just pulls my mind. Yeah. Last time, this is the other this is the other reason I wanted to listen to this because I knew we talked about this last time, but we didn't get to dive into it much. Last time you're on the show. We talked about writing music, we you kind of talked about this for examples that don't exist specifically around this pirate themed game that in the Caribbean, but not Pirates of the Caribbean. And they wanted to have no no no.

Chase Bethea (25:33.336)
Thank you. Thank you.

Chase Bethea (25:56.718)
Yeah, not a virus to the Caribbean.

Roger Reichardt (25:59.738)
But they wanted to have like this flair, right? But you said there's like no examples of that. And I wanted to dive into that a little bit more. How do you go about processing that when there's no examples, yet you have to come up with the sound that you can't, I mean, there had to have been a sound, but yet you're trying to like find it, but there's really not a lot of examples out there.

Chase Bethea (26:24.876)
Right, right. And so what I realized is that what I'm known for is the Swiss Army Knives of Video Game composition is literally being the amalgamation of genres. So I am able to absorb many music genres in their own category, and I can conflate them. My ear will conflate them. then because I know

I have a strong sense of theory, music composition, et cetera. That's what comes out. And that's my gift. So.

Roger Reichardt (26:58.747)
Hmm.

Chase Bethea (27:02.028)
In school, they teach you to copy. And there's the whole adage of great composers, good composers copy, great composers steal. So that's what they teach you in schools. They, well, we copied a lot of composers, but through the copying, what happens is that you're either going to be a great copy. And there are some AAA composers that I would name, but they know who they are that have copied.

Roger Reichardt (27:13.136)
Mm-hmm.

Chase Bethea (27:28.886)
a John Williams and now they're known as that to kind of be at that, be a John Williams copy. They're not really having their own sound because they're in a specific franchise. But, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? They're making a great living. They're obviously are happy. They continue to accept the work. Hopefully they're happy. I don't want to speak for them, but don't want to speak for them. I'm not them, but.

Roger Reichardt (27:35.749)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (27:50.254)
Hahaha.

You

Chase Bethea (27:55.67)
With copying, you're either going to go down the copy route or you're going to end up creating your own sound or you're going to be becoming someone like me, which is a hybrid. I can and we can copy, but what's a really good friend of mine told me a long time ago is that no one creates art the way that you do. And so even though if I copied something directly, what it is, it'll never come out the same way that first original came out. And so.

Roger Reichardt (28:20.518)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (28:26.008)
through that, I'm able to create something new every time because that's what happens. I'll take bits and pieces of something I heard here and there was a lick, I'll change the lick. Then I do the lick even, I wanna say better, but I do it in a different variation. And then that's something there. And then from something other genre, I heard something or mostly the journey that I've kind of been on is through instrument experimentation and...

Roger Reichardt (28:53.99)
Hmm.

Chase Bethea (28:54.882)
That's just, it's not, it's not, don't want to make it sound like it's sound design. It's mostly, I have a xylophone, I have some mallets. I'm just going to bring out this inner child in me and play on the xylophone, excuse me, or play on the bass or play on the guitar. And something's going to come out of that because that's what happened when we were children is that experimentation. And when we did experiments, create, we made this and

look at this mom, look at this dad, look at this whoever like this is what I made and this is what came from it. And I realized some years ago that's what needs to continue to happen. an online business mentor had said the key to art is curiosity. And that's what a lot of children have. But a lot of us who grow into adults forget to have mostly.

Roger Reichardt (29:36.998)
Hmm.

Chase Bethea (29:50.818)
So I come from the curiosity standpoint and I come from the programming idea of what if. And with those together, I'm able to conflate all these other things and then that's what I think comes about it. So the what ifs and the curiosity is what happens.

Roger Reichardt (30:04.09)
Hmm. Yeah, I like that. And it's interesting that you say that because we talked a little bit about this last time to the curiosity piece. I think the other thing that kind of plays into that and it's something that as adults, we forget is to allow yourself to make mistakes. Because a lot of times something new or creative comes from those mistakes. And I call it I call it falling forward or falling, feeling fast and feeling safe, right? Like, because

A lot of times. You're not given that creative. Ability to make mistakes. It's like it has to be perfect and if it's not perfect like because it has to be off the door. It has to be has to be done, has to be polished, has to be quick. But without without that curiosity, you also are not allowing yourself to make those mistakes and then and then learning something new. Maybe it's not. Maybe you don't include it, but maybe you're like, this is something new that I didn't know before because I made this mistake.

Chase Bethea (31:03.982)
Absolutely, absolutely. have to make your mistakes is going to be the quickest teacher for you. And I don't think anything mostly ships in a perfect manner. There's going to be some imperfection, whether it's like immediately or down the line. So you can be close to what you feel is perfect. But the mistakes is really where that's where you're going to learn and learn well and build upon that.

Roger Reichardt (31:30.928)
Yeah.

So the other thing I wanted to ask about was when you're writing music, and this is something that I was thinking about the other day, and I thought this would be a good question for Chase. When you're music and you're thinking about, it's like writing music for video games, I think is so much different than writing music for, let's say, even a movie, because there's certain elements that could happen during the game that you're not expecting, because the player has some control over that, right? And I'm thinking of like,

when there's a transition between like an action scene and then when it's not like action, when it's just like walking through the forest or walking through an area that's not, you know, it's much more subtle. How do you, what is the challenge with that? Like, how do you write music to allow for this buildup to where that action happens and then it doesn't and it kind of, you know, becomes more subtle and it becomes more calm. Like, how do you go through the transition?

Chase Bethea (32:33.09)
Yeah, so I want to clarify.

When you're talking about the transition, you're talking about in a player controlled environment transition, a cut scene, right?

Roger Reichardt (32:41.766)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, player controlled correct. Because I feel like cut scenes probably is more like movie where you would like OK, I know this music and be playing and then this cut scenes going to happen. But blah blah blah. I'm thinking more of like a player controlled situation where the player enters an area and they're like, I gotta get out of this area. Game state correct, yeah.

Chase Bethea (32:46.454)
Okay, this is

Yes.

Chase Bethea (32:58.712)
game state.

Chase Bethea (33:02.274)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, game state. So the cool thing about this is this is something that I specialize in, which is dynamic music, which is it's based off of the player's input, but it's also based off environmental inputs. And those are game states and things where they, you're maybe in a different area and the music transitions from there, or you're going into combat and the music transition from there to being low grade. I've done this in many different forms. I've been getting more acclimated in

efficient with it the past, let's say, five or so years. And I've been using different middleware from Wwise to... I started on FMOD Designer, then FMOD Studio, then Wwise, and then moved into Elias. And then now I'm doing it out of any middleware. Now I'm just doing it. We'll see an engine with different developers because the basic things that I need to kind of get done are solid for what they need to get done for, for independent game projects and things that I want to kind of control.

And so the way that I conquer these transitions is I have to understand what the game state focuses. And the cool thing about me being, I'm not just a video game composer, I understand game design very well. I'm self-taught because of all the games I've played since a child. So with all the amount of games I've played since I was six years old, I have a really good, a mass knowledge in terms of what the transition should be because I'm thinking like a player first and

Roger Reichardt (34:30.15)
Hmm.

Chase Bethea (34:30.412)
in the game design form and then I'm able to write the music that I know of, have seen over the years that have done it and those that have a nice study. And so as I haven't really worked at a game studio that would allow me to learn it the way that those studios would have.

the team to show you how. So that's self-taught. So what I learned through the audio middleware is that those transitions happen typically with something called stingers, which are just small, like, cent-second, by-second cues. There sometimes orchestral. There's going to be electronic. What I've learned and loved about it is that all those transitions happened in an orchestral form because that was popular starting when it was able to stream that type of audio since the 2000s. And...

Richard Jakes and Gary Scheinman and a couple other composers. Those were the early pioneers who were doing at the orchestral level for those type of things. Those were those type of transitions that were happening in orchestral form. But for me, I learned that you could do it in different genres. Like experimenting with, so was thinking, I haven't heard a space transition form from combat to

then exploratory. I did that. I never released a video. should probably do that to you. But another video I was working on was I did a seamless transition for a 2D fighting game that was in a PlayStation one type of form. so from the from the menu into combat, like low level combat to mid level to high level and then victory and then back into a menu and did it all one seamless game transition music format. It never changes.

Roger Reichardt (35:48.005)
Mmm.

Roger Reichardt (35:59.092)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (36:14.026)
theme of what is going on. It's solid and fluid. And that was with Elias. So what I do is I mostly, I'm trying to paraphrase it because actually there's a talk I'm going to release I think in a couple of days, whereas, and I talk about this from when I worked on a quest like Pocket Wheel Hunting with Hits, Temple Slaying Monsters in Harmony. And I gave this talk. so just to generalize, the transitions happen based off of whatever game mechanic I'm thinking is going to perform. So with that one, I was talking about fighting games.

Roger Reichardt (36:17.798)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (36:43.906)
The other one was space combat with quest like pocket. was different biomes. And I just understand, I have to understand temple. I have to understand something called a through compose form, which is a music terminology that goes, there's music forms of a B A B A and that's binary and then ternary form. Then there's other forms of music, but the through compose allow different States for me. So I, in fact, well, I don't know if he did it and I didn't tell him.

Roger Reichardt (36:49.254)
Mm.

Roger Reichardt (37:01.317)
Mm.

Chase Bethea (37:12.174)
But a PlayStation game just got released today. And I wrote that in a through Compose form. So if they were right to do it in different formats for geometry battles, I think it's called on PS1, you could, the intensity of one, however the intensity happens through the battle states, that music wouldn't intensify. So it's just mostly me thinking of what that game state is going to do and then writing accordingly to the

Roger Reichardt (37:35.11)
Mmm.

Chase Bethea (37:44.672)
mechanic that's going to happen for the player. And if I can anticipate that, then I'll know it needs to be intense here, it needs to be down there. But doing it in different music styles, I think it's been something that's not really to explore too much because everyone just kind of generalizes to the orchestral form. But there's so many cool other things you can do acoustically or electronically or bossa nova or any any other styles. And that's what I've been focused on.

Roger Reichardt (38:12.218)
Wow. Do you do you feel like that's something that

just as it hasn't been explored because of composers not into the games like you are maybe? Like, do you think like your background in games obviously has a big part of that? But do you think that, I mean, if we look back at like music being composed, like it's just, you know, I think it takes a special person to be, have that background in gaming as well, right?

Chase Bethea (38:46.73)
Absolutely, you're correct. What I've observed is that a lot of people want to be game composers, but they don't study games. And I always say, well, you wanted to be a film composer, you'd study movies. And I understand the games take a... It's not as easy to study at the level where as you watch the movie and because it's in linear form, you really have to understand game design. And that means you have to learn something.

Roger Reichardt (38:56.441)
Hmm.

Roger Reichardt (39:01.477)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (39:14.19)
completely different outside of learning music and then learning how to write for games because even though you know music and people who wanted to film people want to get into writing game music it's mostly like you have a better chance of writing a normal track and just having it synced up to something that someone who doesn't understand it for those transitions of dynamic but what they don't know what they don't understand is that people like you will and me especially will appreciate it on a higher level because it's a part of the game design it's not just something that's thrown in.

Roger Reichardt (39:18.821)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (39:32.42)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (39:43.232)
And then our titles and our services and our passion and expertise and skill sets and everything and talents that we put in as video game composers go get appreciated and valued higher because we're not just throwing it in as a loop. But you have, there's a multi-level understanding of this. It's like you said, I understand games first. At first I love games. That's number one. My love and my passion for game is unprecedented.

Roger Reichardt (39:43.738)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (40:09.36)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (40:11.852)
Number two, I understand games, which is another level. Number three, I studied them. Number four, I worked with them for a long time. And number five, I understand the culmination of other disciplines, including my own. understand music. I understand music design, which is another level, right? And just writing chords and melodies and counter points. And that's great. But then if it doesn't fit the art with the story and have that emotional feeling, you're missing, you're dropping a lot of the ball. And

Roger Reichardt (40:38.372)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (40:40.51)
Our job is 50 % of the experience. 50%, if not more, some developers would argue.

Roger Reichardt (40:43.834)
Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.

Yeah.

Chase Bethea (40:48.472)
This is the stuff that makes you cry. This is the stuff that 40 years later, David Wise gets to still get on stage and play aquatic ambience and people are in tears with their tiffoo box, like, know, on the re-up because he understood it. He understands to that level what that is. And that's why that longevity happens. It's why people still love the Streets of Rave soundtrack because he understood what it's supposed to feel like for the vibe and things like that too.

Roger Reichardt (41:14.512)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (41:18.592)
So it's the same type of science, but you're not studying it at that multi-level. You're only going to get, you're not even going to get halfway there. You might get a quarter of the way.

Roger Reichardt (41:29.902)
Yeah. Well, and think, I think too, like, I know there's obviously some different genres of movies and stuff. But if you don't really understand the different genres of games, I think that could be another trap as well. Right? Because like, fighting, writing for music for a fighting game, I would assume would be way different than writing music for like an RPG, for instance.

Chase Bethea (41:54.008)
Yeah, I I've listened to some of the fighting game music that they've done there and I can tell my ears are so good. And mostly I didn't realize all ears go my ears. I was thinking, they sync that mean like they took a song and I could tell they just wrote the song and they just threw it in there. They didn't even think about the design of how it would fit. And then when you get someone like Mick Gordon and Tom Salta thinking on dynamic music design levels, it took it to another level. That's why it was received at the level that it was. That's why they like.

Roger Reichardt (42:08.858)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (42:19.802)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (42:22.562)
first person shooter Doom because they're thinking on these multi-level stats. And Olivier Derivier, when he's doing it for survival type games and first person against something that wasn't really done and then figuring that out and getting it to that form. So it does take, but there are only a, there are not that many names out there. I can name the five that do it at that level that I know that I've at least I've studied my own right to. There's eight of them, I think in total.

Roger Reichardt (42:27.376)
there.

Roger Reichardt (42:38.65)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (42:47.194)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (42:52.526)
But it's like you have to approach the project the way that the entire art form is going to receive it. can't just write just because it's fun to write for. I think it's going to work because you're missing something.

Roger Reichardt (43:08.078)
Yeah, yeah. I love talking to you about this because it's just so like such an in depth conversation. I love that so much. This is why love having on the show. Because it's like stuff that I think about but I'm like, am I crazy to think this? And then I hear you talking about I'm like, that is awesome. That is like, it just like next level, right? Like, I feel like a child when I talk to you, which is awesome, which is awesome, because it's like, I absorb so much but

Chase Bethea (43:16.974)
You

Roger Reichardt (43:33.473)
It's just it's fun talking to you because just hearing your thought process around all this stuff is just I love it so much. So yeah, thank you.

Chase Bethea (43:40.568)
Thank you. It's good to be appreciated for the knowledge that I've amassed for. And I feel like a brainiac in my own world. And I honestly don't get to have these types of conversations with many, if any. And so it's really just, it's me just sitting with myself and my thoughts. So the fact that you enjoy it, I'm very grateful.

Roger Reichardt (44:00.272)
Yeah, I do. Thank you. So the other thing I wanted to talk to you about this is like one of the other topics is AI. So as we talked a little bit about this before the show, it's it it it's weird to me now, like through different like programs, like I'm sure like Adobe has some programs like this, but I know like Canva has programs and other things. It's like, select what

you know, you can create music through AI select your genres that you'd like and then you select some stuff and then it spits out some notes and it it tries to sound like music and you're like, hey, this doesn't feel real at all. How do you think AI will impact the music world if if if it impacts music world? And we'll start there. What do you think some of the impact might be on the music world?

Chase Bethea (44:40.206)
you

Chase Bethea (44:57.304)
So I've been talking about this for some years. The first time I talked about it, it was about four years ago and my thoughts were that it was going to be an assistant to four composers. And I still believe that to a degree. The only problem is I haven't seen the tools in the way that I envisioned it to be. And the way that I broke this down and think the talks that I gave this year, October, was that I will think of a chord progression.

And it will say, and I'll, and I'll just write it. And then maybe I get stuck. Maybe I'm not, and it happens like it's not writers blocking the serolies mostly me taking my time and I'll get stuck in the moment of, this chord, okay, this chord. And it's like 10 minutes have gone by at this point. I could call in the AI assistant and say, Hey, I'm stuck here. I'm trying to achieve maybe this and want it to sound like that. What chord do you produce suggest? And then it will say, we suggest these type of chords and

Then they might go, like, this composer or this musician used it in this song and this way. I was like, okay, yeah, that's good information. Or, and then I'll say, okay, well, I'll yank that chord. And then I can alter that if I like it, or I can keep it because that's what it was giving me. I haven't seen that type of assistant type of technology yet. I've talked about it before. So it's going to be up to the sample library companies to figure that out. Unfortunately, I'm just going to give away the idea and someone else can be rich about it. It's too much work for me.

Roger Reichardt (46:10.214)
Hmm.

Chase Bethea (46:25.902)
Just know you heard it here twice. I said it four years ago. I'm here four years later saying it again, as I haven't seen it. So that was where I believe it's going to be. Now in the term of...

Roger Reichardt (46:27.878)
That's right, that's right.

Roger Reichardt (46:32.485)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (46:39.81)
Who is using it?

That's going to be upon the game developers and how serious they are about their game. And I'm going to keep it simplified as I it before. If you want to make games for robots, go ahead and be my guest. Because until the AI has my heartaches and my heartbreaks, I'm writing music for humans. And I was hoping that you'd be writing or you'd be creating games that humans could play too. If you have AI music in your game,

Roger Reichardt (46:48.614)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (47:11.75)
It's kind of like the composer who didn't understand game music and is just writing it and they're missing the mark. It's kind of almost the same, I hate to say it, even though one is human and not doing the homework and the other one isn't human. It's just, well, here's the ball drop. The AI only knows how to do that because a human wrote it. So the AI learned from the human to take it different parts and put it together.

Roger Reichardt (47:29.221)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (47:32.996)
Yeah, yeah. I find it really interesting though, because like music wise, didn't, I haven't really dug into it from a music standpoint, right? Like the impact that AI has on music, but I have seen from my job is just content creation and like writing scripts and writing things like that. And to me, it seems like

Chase Bethea (47:34.328)
Thank

Roger Reichardt (47:59.43)
Because I'm in the same boat that you are in. feel like AI could be used for a lot bigger things, right? Like things that we're not using it for, but it feels like the things that people latch onto it. hate to say that, like, I don't hate to say this, but like, this doesn't sound awful, but it feels like it's the lazy stuff that people latch onto, like the easy lazy stuff. I'm like, oh, they can create scripts for us really fast. like, well, I don't need it to write scripts for me. What I needed to do is to think beyond like my thought process, right? And like,

Chase Bethea (48:20.974)
you

Roger Reichardt (48:28.826)
Like help me see where the holes are that I'm not seeing right and like help me think through how I could apply this in a matter that I didn't think of. But instead, everybody slashes on the easy solutions because it seems like. But maybe that's just because it's the easiest thing and that's the it's the it's the easiest way to implement it, I guess.

Chase Bethea (48:49.27)
It's going to take a certain type of brain to input what you want from it. You, and this comes with training. I'm not going to give away the secret here, but I have that. I'm not going to do it, but you're talking about something that I already do. And so when I, when AI came out for that, my mind blew up because I'm thinking already on the level of what I have passed the other stuff. knew about the roadblocks I was having. I knew about the things that I couldn't solve. knew about.

how I felt with people who didn't know or dropped the ball for some stuff, the AI can fill in a massive gap in my life for it. And so it's gonna take a certain amount of thinking power and brain thoughts for you to get into what you want it to do. But if you don't think that way, you'll never be able to tap into that power. And trust me, it's unlimited.

Roger Reichardt (49:39.662)
Yeah, it may. And maybe that's the problem, maybe because people don't think like because it just seems it sounds awful to say this, but it really feels like people implement the easiest, simplest way to use AI. And it's just like that is the most like, first of all, the least creative way, right? Because like now you're taking away creativity from people that that could be doing this. That are doing this, right? Yeah, exactly.

Chase Bethea (50:05.87)
that we're ever doing to you.

Roger Reichardt (50:09.746)
And it's lazy. It just feels lazy. It just feels lazy and just not real. Like you said, it feels like nobody, some real person didn't write it right. It feels soulless, right? So, yeah.

Chase Bethea (50:22.017)
soulless. Right. Yeah. And it's on every level. It's like it goes from writing scripts. There are script writers in Hollywood. I don't know if they're out of jobs. There's copywriters and other and there's people who actually love to write. People who write for games in those things. And then there's, you the artist thing is a big deal for that stuff. And then, you music is

Roger Reichardt (50:31.718)
Mm-hmm.

Roger Reichardt (50:41.946)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (50:50.558)
another thing. So like I said, hey, I want to have my heartaches and heartbreaks for that motion to be able to connect with someone to have it. Hey, have at it. I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want it. Have at it, please. Here you go.

Roger Reichardt (51:00.123)
Yeah

Roger Reichardt (51:09.38)
Yeah, I don't think I'll ever get well, and I'm in that at this not in my lifetime. I don't think I'll get to that point so. Maybe I don't know. don't know. What are some of technologies though that are in game audio that you are excited about that you see either now or in the future?

Chase Bethea (51:15.096)
That's good.

Chase Bethea (51:30.385)
Oh, man, I'm glad I at least looked at one email last week because I've kind of been peeling back from some of those things. But I did see that Cryware was able to get something. Just so you know, Cryware is one of the 10 audio middlewares in game audio. And don't ask me how I know I'm a big geek and I used to be the interactive audio special interest group chair. So I felt like it was my duty to at least know

Roger Reichardt (51:52.038)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (51:59.672)
the 10, if not five or seven of them. we get, but yeah, Crywear is the Japanese audio middleware company. They've been around for many years. They've been around a little before wise, I would say, because I remember playing video games and seeing the logo. So before I even got into games and game, game, game audio, I remember that. And that was PS2 era. So that's how I.

Roger Reichardt (52:02.788)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roger Reichardt (52:15.184)
Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Okay.

Chase Bethea (52:24.558)
And so they are able to get their software, their middleware, working on the play date. Do know what the play date is? Yeah. And I think that's really cool for developers that are making some games on there because it's going to allow for dynamic music to be implemented in that form on there as well. someone who had shipped dynamic music on the OUYA, I believe one of the only video game composers that ever did that for a game, that's pretty cool, I think. And so that's a good thing.

Roger Reichardt (52:32.23)
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roger Reichardt (52:47.106)
Yeah

Roger Reichardt (52:50.576)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chase Bethea (52:53.07)
That's a good step. And I think other software developers that work in audio middleware should be working with other software developers that make audio middleware to create a universal file that works together, like something called MIDI that was exempted, to be able to work with other engines of all that developers use if they can do it, and be pushing that forward.

Roger Reichardt (53:10.822)
you

Yeah, yeah.

Chase Bethea (53:22.75)
I'm just saying. Couldn't get the initiative out the other way. Got to use it here. Somebody's going hear it.

Roger Reichardt (53:31.718)
That's right. That's right. That's right. Yeah. I mean, I suppose that that would that makes it a little bit more difficult with I mean, because you just think about like all the different media out there. I do a lot of like video, right? And like, if I, you know, have to try to trans, you know, translate or take a video and from one format to another, like this, that's not fun. I hate it.

Chase Bethea (53:56.3)
No, you got to put it in handbrake and then take that out and then maybe have it on some upload those side that can convert it to something else. No, mp4.h.t64.mov is thankfully is working in Final Cut. Thankfully it's working in DaVinci. Thankfully it's working in VideoPad or Adobe Premiere or whatever you're using or Vegas. not. You could tell I do video editing too, right?

Roger Reichardt (54:00.325)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (54:05.904)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (54:15.547)
Yeah.

Roger Reichardt (54:19.174)
Yeah.

Chase Bethea (54:27.182)
not just a video game composer here.

Roger Reichardt (54:28.334)
Yeah Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's awesome. Well chase it was really happy. I was really awesome having you on the show. I mean, I love having this conversation and of course, I'll have to have you back on the show and talk more about 2025 for you because 2024 was a big year for you and I'm and I can see 2025 being just as big of a year for you

Where can people follow you and find your music and check out all your work that you've done?

Chase Bethea (54:59.918)
Yes, thank you for having me back. I love talking with you. Thank you for the questions. It is really good just having this dialogue and sharing some of the knowledge in these anecdotes and things. I really appreciate it. If you are looking to hear my work, you can go to chase, bethea, b as in boy, e in Eric, t in Tom, h as in Harry, e as in Eric, a as in apple.com. And I am going to say here.

I am not going to be on Spotify next year, here forward. are thieves. so you, whatever catalog is there, if I don't have it removed, enjoy it. You can officially support and hear my work on Bandcamp. That's chasepatea.bandcamp.com or the other platforms which seem to be okay right now, which is Apple. Stream it on Tidal. Tidal has a higher fidelity quality that you can hear on YouTube. It's definitely going to be on there because I know everyone's got YouTube, but on...

Roger Reichardt (55:31.022)
Okay, okay, okay.

Chase Bethea (55:56.782)
And yeah, so first place Bandcamp, YouTube, Tidal, Apple Music, Amazon, and the other maybe streaming platforms like Deezer, Intense and whatever. But Spotify, we're done. I will be making that announcement about why next year, besides them being thieves. I had to let him know, Roger, because we got to speak up about this.

Roger Reichardt (56:13.282)
Okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Roger Reichardt (56:23.086)
No, I don't blame you. mean, if you know, maybe that's the topic that we could have you on later on after you make your official announcement. this is the unofficial announcement here, I'd say. When you make the official announcement.

Chase Bethea (56:34.03)
Why is Spotify stealing from people when they make $94 billion?

Roger Reichardt (56:40.646)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. But listeners, I'll I'll put links into the show notes, not to Spotify, to everything else that you mentioned in the show notes that people can listen to your music and check you out. Chase, thank you so much for joining me. I, every time I have you on the show, I know this is only second time, but every time I just feels like it's just such a fun conversation and you're, and I've said this before,

Chase Bethea (56:44.706)
Not my work.

Roger Reichardt (57:11.064)
You are like one of those people that when I talk to, I'm just like, wow, I feel like a child and a sponge. And I can just soak up all this information from you because you're just, you just, you just know so much, but you're so like humble about it too, which is so nice to like chat to you. Like I just, I love chatting with you. So thank you so much.

Chase Bethea (57:32.792)
Thank you, thank you. I'm very happy to share and talk with you too.

Roger Reichardt (57:39.242)
Listeners, thanks for giving us a listen. If you like what you hear, leave us a review. We want to hear what you have to say about the show. Until next week, everyone, stay safe and game on. Bye.