Behind the Scenes of Indie Game Development: The Journey of Daylight Basement Studios and 'Rightfully Beary Arms'

We're pulling back the curtain on the world of indie game development. Join us as we sit down with the dynamic trio from Daylight Basement Studios — Chris, Mike, and Garrett, the masterminds behind the game, Rightfully Beary Arms. We get an insider's look at the journey that brought these three together, from their initial meeting at IBM to the formation of their gaming studio. Their passion for game development shines through as they share their experiences and the challenges they overcame to bring their vision to life.

Ready to immerse yourself in a universe filled with vibrant colors, impressive graphics, and unique 3D aesthetics? Rightfully Beary Arms does just that, and we dive headfirst into how these elements were used to create a world that can captivate and engross players. And if the immersive visuals weren't enough, prepare to be amazed by the game's charm — from their hilarious dialogues to their roguelike mechanics. And the icing on the cake? Garrett's brilliant music composition that perfectly encapsulates the essence of the game and takes the experience to a whole new level.

Finally, we take you through the final stretch of our journey with Daylight Basement Studios by discussing the challenges and the joy of game development. The conversation with Garrett reveals the importance of understanding the game's brand before composing its music and how he managed to balance various aspects of the project. And as a special treat, we let you in on some of the hilarious lines that had us in splits. All this and more, in one insightful and entertaining episode. Don't forget to check the game out on Steam and visit the game's website. So, strap in and enjoy the ride!

Wishlist Rightfully, Beary Arms: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1928030/Rightfully_Beary_Arms/

Check out Daylight Basement Studios:
https://daylightbasementstudio.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Interview With Daylight Basement Studios
• 10:35 Writing, Characters, and Game Mechanics
• 18:45 Colorful Game Development and Artistic Vision
• 22:39 Music and Challenges in Game Development
• 37:56 Appreciation for Interview and Game Promotion

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi, I'm Celia Shilling from Yacht Club Games.

Speaker 2: 0:03

This is Stephanie from the Boss Rush podcast and the Boss Rush Network.

Speaker 1: 0:06

Hey, this is Mark and Keon from Bonta-Affold. Hey, this is Sebastian with thepronervereportcom and the Single Player Experience podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:15

Hey, this is Todd Mitchell from Code Right Play.

Speaker 1: 0:17

Salutations.

Speaker 3: 0:18

This is Mike Carroll from Stroll Art. Hey, this is Patrick from the Backlog Odyssey. Hey, this is Rune from Runeit Codes.

Speaker 4: 0:25

Hi, this is Andrew from Spalato Birds.

Speaker 1: 0:28

Hi, this is Barry from Premium Edition Games.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Hi everyone. Jill Grote here from the Indie Informer. Hey, this is Brimstone and you're listening to Roger Reichardt on the Gamer Heads podcast.

Speaker 1: 0:47

And welcome to another episode of the Gamer Heads podcast. My name is Roger. This week I have a very special guest, well, several guests here. I have the folks at Daylight Basement Studios, the creators behind Rightfully Barry Arms with me this week, And I have Chris Garrett and Mike. I'll let you all introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into gaming. Hi, I'm Chris. No, go ahead. Chris, You start. Yeah, That's fine. Okay, I just shoved my way in and here we go.

Speaker 2: 1:23

Hi, I'm Chris, one of the game designers on Rightfully Barry Arms.

Speaker 3: 1:30

Yeah, Mike, I do programming, That's my primary thing different design aspects and just kind of other odds and ends.

Speaker 4: 1:42

And I'm Garrett and I do the music for the game.

Speaker 1: 1:45

Nice Well, welcome all to the show. Glad that we were able to connect. One quick question I have before we get into the other questions, Like do you all work in the same studio together? Do you work remotely? How does that work for you guys?

Speaker 2: 2:03

We are all remote. Okay, we actually met Garrett at two packs ago and he joined on the project and he isn't actually part of daily basement, but he's become very close and intertwined with the gaming design and process, so yeah, Nice, nice, cool, well, yeah, well, tell us about yourself.

Speaker 1: 2:27

How did Daylight Basement Studios start and how did you get into gaming? It's in creating games, because that's, I'm going to tell you, that is appealing for a lot of folks, but also very scary.

Speaker 2: 2:42

Yeah, yeah, it actually like the way that we got into at least the stories that Mike and I shared together of getting into game dev is kind of how it also even started. So yeah, it started way back I started doing. I got into coding through game dev because I was interested in making my own games and I think I did stuff in like Game Maker stuff way back then and Scratch And I picked up coding and then went to school and lost that I don't know that drive to do game dev and I wanted to work traditional software engineering and I realized how much I missed that creativity side of it and doing art and working with all these other people. And during my tenure in engineering I met Mike at IBM and we talked about how we got into game dev and doing all these different hobby projects and we never really finished anything.

Speaker 2: 3:38

And so this is the result of us trying to finish something.

Speaker 1: 3:42

Nice, nice, nice. So you met Mike at IBM, that's what you said Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah. So, mike, what about you? How did you get into this?

Speaker 3: 3:54

Yeah, So you know, for me, you know, like, i guess, when I first started programming, you know it was kind of through, i guess, gaming and wanting to create my own games and just kind of be creative that way, and actually started, you know, with, you know learning basic on a TRS-80 and just kind of working my way up in different languages and you know, just kind of doing these different side projects along the way, eventually going to school for, you know, for engineering and computer, you know, programming, and then kind of moving into that as a career And just kind of always doing these side projects but never really getting serious about them.

Speaker 3: 4:38

And then just kind of, you know, work with Chris and it just kind of came up in a conversation like, hey, let's do this, you know, and that's pretty much it. It's in terms of how we were actually able to commit to it and, you know, stay committed to it for as long as we have. That's kind of a hard, i think, question to answer. I'm not even really sure how that happened, but I think once the gear is kind of going, you know enough, i think it's kind of hard to pull away from it. So but yeah, i think this is, you know, this is kind of our first real foray into something of this caliber Nice.

Speaker 1: 5:19

And then Garrett you it sounds like you met them at a PAX then and then got pulled into the, into the studio and started making music. Right, you're the, you make the music for the game. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: 5:33

So for me and my journey into the game dev world it kind of started I graduated college for music and kind of started my freelance music career back in like 2012, 2013, and was kind of pigeonholed into doing like jingle writing and commercial writing and that kind of stuff, engineering for studios and that kind of thing. All the while I was, you know, playing D&D with some friends and the DM and my group started, you know, doing some like getting some music for sessions and kind of expanding the kind of audio world of our D&D sessions.

Speaker 4: 6:14

So one year I decided to make some music for like theme music for each of the characters, and then that kind of led one thing into another and I started like offering that as a service where I make music for other tabletop players and that kind of led me to a lot of other creators who make music for video games, and then that's kind of how I was. Like, you know, i should go to PAX this year and then next thing, you know, here I am Very awesome.

Speaker 3: 6:42

Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 6:46

So, yeah, tell us about the game itself then. So rightfully, Barry Arms, What is the game about? And then also tell us about the game. But then also I want to know more about the title too. Like how did you come up with the title for this game?

Speaker 2: 7:02

Yeah, it's an action should-em-up roguelite, similar to other bullet hell titles as well. I'd say like the gunplay we get compared a lot to like gunjinn or nuclear throne. But a lot of inspiration probably came from other games honestly in the roguelite genre, like dead cells and, yeah, like quite a few I can't even think but And we put a lot more emphasis on like the planning and the progression part of roguelites, because we felt like that was like missing and that's something that Mike and I enjoyed within game titles. So you can actually like plan the dungeons you want to crawl, plan your possible resources that you can collect. We still toss in that randomness.

Speaker 2: 7:49

That is like really fun in roguelites and kind of having different builds with like different weapon upgrade builds and building up your character and different meta progression for Barry, the main character. Yeah, then one unique aspect is you can actually choose how the enemy gets upgraded and how the game gets more difficult. So you usually see that when you die, but in the real game, as you beat bosses in your run, you're stacking them and then when?

Speaker 2: 8:18

you die, they clear and then you start with a new enemy upgrade that you have to choose.

Speaker 1: 8:24

So yeah, awesome, and in the title, rightfully Barry Arms.

Speaker 2: 8:32

Yeah, so that comes from. We haven't explored too much in this story, especially and probably won't with early access, but the idea is actually Barry is a teddy bear that a kid is imagining. they're a teddy bear going through all this different conflict and things like that, and this kid is struggling with, maybe, self-concept of who they want to become, maybe different anxieties or different conflicts they want to overcome, and this teddy bear is their source of strength and who they are, and so the bear themselves writes to the child and signs it rightfully.

Speaker 2: 9:19

Barry Arms, the bear is named Barry.

Speaker 1: 9:24

That's awesome. I mean I think when we talked briefly at PAX, like I think you mentioned to me a little bit about, yeah, you're playing as a teddy bear and it's an imagination of a character or of a kid and his imagination or imaginary character or friend, but that's really deep, That's awesome. I think you should lean into that because there's not a lot of games that in this genre that deal with a kid growing up with their own anxieties of what's expected of them and where they're supposed to be and who they're supposed to be, right.

Speaker 2: 9:57

So that's awesome. I will say that we do want to explore it more and figure out that storytelling, but for EA, we're focusing on gameplay mechanics, trying to get that down And we also don't want to necessarily spoil too many of the story elements before 1.0 release, so yeah, Yeah Well, you just did because you're just kidding, that's no, we've talked about it, so we got some other stuff.

Speaker 1: 10:23

Oh, that's funny, One of the things just a side note here one of the things I really enjoyed about the game when I played it at PAX 2 was the writing behind it And some of the funny things. Like I ended up going behind the Fox character and talking to him And he had some funny lines to say And I actually burst out laughing when I was playing the game. I thought that was hilarious. Can you talk about the writing too, around the characters and the dialogue That was awesome.

Speaker 3: 10:54

Yeah, so I do a lot of the writing And I think most of the writing that shows up, i think, like the weapon pickers and things like that will have some writing. But in terms of, like, actual character dialogue, most of that currently is just in the tutorial And a lot of it was me just kind of being literal and thinking like, okay, we have to try to explain to the player how to do this thing, and I'm just going to cut to the chase And I'm just going to say it the way it is. And a lot of it came from me just kind of like this is how I talk And I'm just going to maybe spice it up a little bit In terms of, like, approaching the character from the back. I'm not exactly sure how that happened, but I just thought like, hey, why not? Like, if you're trying to talk to him from the back? you know that's kind of weird, you wouldn't do that in real life with you.

Speaker 3: 11:46

So I think that that's kind of like where that comes from And I don't know. I can't really think of any other games where, if you talk to them from the front versus the back, you know they say completely different things.

Speaker 1: 11:59

Yeah, I loved that And why. I have to ask, was I had the only one at PAX that actually noticed that? because I don't know why. I decided I was just like exploring And I was like, Oh my gosh, I would say it's pretty few.

Speaker 2: 12:14

You had a very genuine reaction And at first I thought something was wrong, like a bad bug, and then I realized that you were laughing like a fart joke.

Speaker 1: 12:31

I laughed so hard at that. I thought that was great. So one of the things you mentioned in the game is the unique aspect of the twist on the rug, like mechanics, So you have things where your next run you might have fewer health drops or the enemies can move faster. What were some of the inspirations around that twist and how many different mechanics or twists like that do you have in the game?

Speaker 2: 12:59

Yeah, that came from Wildermyth. I don't know if you've played Wildermyth, but it's like this really beautiful, like dynamic storytelling kind of RPG game You can play I believe Co-op too, which is kind of neat, so it's very tabletop-like but in a video game, and they try to make the story dynamic And so things emerge from it. And one of the things that emerge from it is you can choose how to, like, make the world difficult, and I thought that was a really, really awesome element And I was like why isn't this in roguelites?

Speaker 2: 13:31

That seems like such an awesome place for this to happen. So, in total, I don't know how many calamities we have. It's like maybe push in 20. I don't know, Mike, do you remember exactly?

Speaker 3: 13:50

Yeah, 20, 30. I mean, there's definitely plans to expand that and do all sorts of crazy things as we continue development. Wow.

Speaker 2: 14:00

It's such a great like balancing mechanic too, because it's like you could be like hey, like I think this is a great way to challenge the player And then, if you like, just straight up implement it in the game. You lose a bunch of people because they're like I don't like that at all, like that wasn't fun. But if you give them a choice to do it, it's like they can decide not to, a lot of players will take the calamity.

Speaker 2: 14:24

They'll take damage while dodging, which is so interesting, because I am so adverse to that. I do not want to do that at all. Yeah, i need to dodge and be able to not take damage. But some people see that and they're like, oh yeah, great, it's a free one.

Speaker 1: 14:40

And I'm like, oh yeah, not for me. So it's interesting. Yeah, i found that really interesting too, and just the fact that that really allows you to play like towards your style as well And also play with the fact that, hey, i can, i can survive with like, for instance, i'll take damage if I, if I dodge, which just means I just won't be dodging right Like I'm going to go in with guns blazing. I thought that was really fascinating. Or like less health drops and things like that. I thought those were such a cool twist on the roguelike. So, yeah, that was like a standout for me.

Speaker 2: 15:16

Yeah, we really wanted to give players more choice into things and have it influence their play style, just like feed into your strengths, and your strengths could be different from run to run. It might be like for this, for this run, because we have certain items and systems in the game that actually save from run to run. So you know, necessarily lose weapons that you collect, you might lose the weapon upgrades, but you don't lose the weapons. So you could choose to build a certain way and build the enemy a certain way, just so you collect weapons right.

Speaker 2: 15:49

So that sets you up for your next run to be that that much better and more successful.

Speaker 1: 15:55

Yeah, that's cool. Was it hard to balance the game then with? with that I mean because you could really make it balanced. You know, tip the, tip, the scales towards the player or vice versa. Right That it could be even Uber challenging for the player. They're like, well, this is not fun anymore.

Speaker 2: 16:14

I think it's like it's been again. it's been like a really cool design lever to have because you might find something that's really fun. But it's kind of broken and maybe in a bad or a good way for the player. But it's like just maybe then make it a low chance for it to come up And then, when it does, come up, it's like, wow, that's, that's awesome, it's like such a rewarding thing for the player to have.

Speaker 2: 16:40

And then once, once the player dies you know there's a lot of things in RBA that can make you die Then it just resets and then it's gone. So it's not like you had that some of these systems forever. So in terms of balancing, it's actually even not too bad. It's been really trying to take the things that are overly broken out not too broken.

Speaker 3: 17:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, i think one of the things you'll find as you play.

Speaker 3: 17:09

It is, you know. You may find, you know, like a weapon or weapon upgrade that makes it almost seem like it's broken, in a sense that it becomes really overpowered. There's pretty much always going to be something that counters that which could be a calamity or whatever it might be. So even though you might think like, oh, I have this awesome weapon that's just like, just you know, destroys everything, there's going to be something that almost certainly is going to come your way, that's going to just kind of, you know, cancel that out.

Speaker 1: 17:37

So yeah, that's awesome. The other thing that I noticed too and, Chris, I talked to you about this when I was playing it at PAX is the lighting and the art. I just thought that was so awesome, just like how beautiful it was. And you talked to more about how, yeah, some of the art is 3D and some of it is 2D. Right, Can you talk about the art behind the game and how did you incorporate the light and in the different effects that you did?

Speaker 2: 18:09

Yeah, i can talk a little bit about more of like the art itself, and then Mike did a lot about the lighting so I handed it off to him after that. But yeah, originally the game actually started more of like I would say, in spirit, a binding of Isaac clone. It was top down and the camera would lock to a room and the only thing that was a little different is that we had a little bear running around with a gun that could fire any direction And the color palette was chosen to be very. you have these really cool colors like the blues that were meant to signify more good things, like your character is berry, this blue-green, teal-ish, and then the background set to a yellow, with the enemies being more of the like that dark red sort of, and I actually pulled a lot from like Cold War propaganda.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Yeah, that's interesting to kind of give that like different look and stuff like that, because, yeah, some some of the kid is like trying to experience, like how to Reconcile maybe things that they don't know it's going out and that's outside their world, right, so it's like what's? what was one thing Americans grew up with that was really big and scary Cold War right. So yeah. But yeah, and then one day Mike's like all right, chris, everything's broken, but I made. I made a change. It's like I changed everything to 3d.

Speaker 1: 19:44

And.

Speaker 2: 19:45

I couldn't compile the game. It was the wreck for a little bit. But we worked through it and yeah, i came out like a really cool, that kind of like Paper Mario style almost yeah. And and then, just over time, we just kept iterating on it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:01

Nice. Yeah. Yeah, i think early on, you know there's a lot of We didn't fully know what we're making, so there's a tremendous amount of experimentation. I think it kind of came out of that. I just basically, you know, at one point thought it would look cool if it was, you know, kind of had that, i guess you know Paper Mario look or basically you know these 2d Sprites in a 3d world, but not overly 3d, i'm just kind of like a little bit of a 3d look to it. And then you know, you get your real-time 3d lighting in there. You do all sorts of kind of cool stuff with you know particles and things like that.

Speaker 3: 20:37

And just it was, you know, basically taking that, finding something that looked more or less kind of what maybe envisioned, and then just kind of iterating on it. There's definitely a lot of playing around with it because, you know, i think there's videos on our, you know, youtube channel When we're still kind of experimenting that look it's, it has kind of the same look, but it doesn't look. It looks like kind of, in a sense, like nowhere near how it looks now, even though it's almost exactly the same. And so, yeah, i think it just kind of came out of that. Just you know, experimentation phase. Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 1: 21:12

Yeah, i just it. Just you know that artwork just pops with that the 3d effect and the lighting, everything. I just thought that was so brilliant. And the other thing that I also Notice, too, is just the amount of different characters, different enemies, that you have in the game. How many different sprites for enemies do you have in this game? I?

Speaker 2: 21:32

think we're Again. I think we're pushing 30 right now for a which. Honestly, we might be more now, though I counted a while ago. But Originally it was going to be like I think we went a little bit ambitious with how we were gonna introduce Enemies into the game and it kind of worked in our favor, because now we've kind of reworked the game a little bit to introduce them a little bit more slowly, but a lot of the enemies are born from puns, and Mike and Garrett's actually pretty good at this too.

Speaker 4: 22:05

Now Do some artwork, for it Just keeps going the pretty good or pretty bad depends on who you ask.

Speaker 2: 22:25

That's a new enemy right there.

Speaker 1: 22:33

Nice. Well, and then Garrett. The other thing that I noticed, too, is just how awesome the music is in this game. Can you tell us more about how the music was incorporated and the inspiration around the music in the game? Sure.

Speaker 4: 22:45

Yeah, i appreciate that. So, yeah, the biggest thing when I'm writing music is I Especially when I'm working with like a collaborative kind of thing I really want to get as much from the collaborator as possible. I hate well, okay, i wouldn't hate if someone came up to me and said, hey, yeah, make whatever you want. But usually when people say that and I make whatever I want, people aren't as as satisfied, because like well, I was kind of thinking this would happen.

Speaker 4: 23:15

And so, yeah, no, i, immediately upon seeing their game, i knew that there was already like a Giant sense of character, Just with, like, yeah, like you mentioned, the art style, just the different types of Programming choices, like how weighty some things might feel and how like that creates this juxtaposition with, like this really kind of hefty gun game with cute characters and and it just You know a lot more than some other people that I you know might work with it, really kind of like Knew what its brand was before.

Speaker 4: 23:52

Maybe they even said let's build a brand, and I think that's a really important thing. And so, when it comes to music, like I would feel all that kind of stuff and know like what intention the music should have, just based off of the intention that they're kind of you know putting out there in every other aspect of the game. And so obviously it's not completely, you know, intuition to me, like I did ask them like a ton of questions When we first started out, really going like deeper than surface level, just to make sure that I kind of was thinking as closely to their own thinking as I could without being them pretty much. And, yeah, asking questions like you know who is the teddy bear, like who is the kid? why? why these colors? and and actually you know, even before I asked questions, chris and Mike sent me like tons and tons of like different artwork assets and like Like PowerPoint presentations about their intent with different things, and that's just like that's a dream of mine, like yeah, Yeah, whenever.

Speaker 4: 24:58

I'm working on like RPG kind of stuff. I always want like a Laura dump because that's just like so useful to understanding You know the tone of what I'm writing for and so like Not even having to ask for that is just like a, you know, a game changer. And so, um, yeah, the first track I did was the, the title theme, which was, you know, a really good move because that's kind of meant to capture the, the whole tone of the game, and The, yeah, the biggest thing that I remember typing out to like as a note to myself is like really highlighting the juxtaposition between like cute and violent and you know like where to lead into it in what way. And, yeah, that ended up kind of manifesting as like Darren Korb, kind of from a you know Like Hades, bastion, pire and all those soundtracks like that. But plus, i mean what I've said before is if Darren Korb wrote for Sesame Street, so it's kind of like yeah, yeah, lots of kazoo's and toy bells

Speaker 1: 26:02

and then like guitar based drums and yeah, that's awesome gnarly, but cute. Yeah, yeah, i love it. So what were some of the challenges that you all faced when creating the game?

Speaker 2: 26:19

Honestly, I feel like at first it was just kind of scoping it correctly.

Speaker 4: 26:23

We had just so many ideas that.

Speaker 2: 26:27

We still want to probably explode the game out, but I think we're we're honing in on a good loop and a good formula. Just really kind of tweaking. It is what we need to do. Other than that, it's been, it's been probably balancing life and Came to have like we will all work full-time and then do this part time. So Yeah, at least that's been it for me.

Speaker 3: 26:52

Yeah, i think that's the the big stuff. I think another aspect was not knowing, you know, we had kind of a vague idea going into this, what we wanted to make, but there was just so many aspects, you know, from a Creative perspective as well as a technical perspective, of what we wanted to do, and not really knowing Those things I think I think because of that, it kind of dragged things on a lot longer than it probably otherwise would have. I think so that was definitely one of the challenges.

Speaker 4: 27:24

Garrett, anything for you, any challenges music wise, trying to think I Feel like, uh, it's, they're fun challenges, but really just like making sure that, uh, you know when, when the challenge with games is always having to write something that doesn't fully exist yet like right for something that doesn't fully exist yet and being able to adapt to any potential changes.

Speaker 4: 27:58

And So this game is definitely like I'm pretty sure I'm maybe started writing before I had a build that I could play myself, but aside from that, it's really just making sure. Like I remember writing the first like piece of music for When you actually are in a dungeon and fighting, i was like, okay, how do I make it like? the quote that they always told me is you want the player to feel like they're John Wick?

Speaker 4: 28:26

I was like how do I get that without like I I don't know. I don't want to make it feel like it's sugar rush music. I don't want it to feel like so there are so many different routes to go, so kind of like making sure that gets nailed and That's. Yeah, they're like I said, they're fun challenges, but it's a lot of guess and check type of stuff. But I feel like that's probably the hardest part. But generally, my, my approach has been Do what I can to leave it open-ended where where I'd be able to do that, where that might be like.

Speaker 4: 29:02

If I write a melody for this dungeon, let me make it so I could potentially rearrange that melody to sound like any other style of music and Have it be adaptable, because sometimes you might you know That sometimes a might, a dungeon theme might not have any melody at all and that makes it so you kind of boxed into that music being particularly for that purpose. But Giving it that that breathability and room for variation has made it. So. As I've progressed and written more for the dungeons And kind of gotten a feel for what the the player experiences, i've been able to, like you know, give a lot of room for variation based off of that kind of concept.

Speaker 4: 29:42

So I guess, yeah, it's, it's been a, That's been a struggle, but it's been getting more fun of a struggle as we progressed through it, for sure.

Speaker 1: 29:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:54

Garrett's ability to just take word salad and just be able to digest it. Like the parameters that Mike and I gave for the arcade theme. I think it was just like It's like Friday night, you should be thinking like eight-bit. You should be thinking Kenny logins, you should be, and I was just like, if I have like, there's no way he's gonna write something.

Speaker 1: 30:24

Did it almost become a challenge to just say, like what, what can get right at this point? let's see what he can do. Just throw a bunch of ideas.

Speaker 2: 30:32

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 30:35

No, i'm pretty excited because they've already gone in like so many different directions for Dungeon themes, so like, please give me something. That's like extremely stupid.

Speaker 1: 30:53

What did you all learn about yourselves, and In and your studio as well, working on this game? Chris, i'll start with you. What do you, what did you learn I?

Speaker 2: 31:08

Think the big thing that I had to learn, i guess, through this was just more. I always felt like in my engineering career I was fairly good at like, project management and planning, and this was just like a whole another level of like, dedication and motivation and like, when you're not, you know, there's just moments when it's just you know I'll be, i'll be honest You're just not motivated and not not really feeling dedicated to this. You're like why did I decide to suck up my nights and weekends with this project? Like, you know, you make a post on Twitter and respond. You're like, so you have to. Like, you know, i learned my. You know, so it's a. You know it's gonna sound Um cliche, but it's, it's a. It's a jog. You got a jog, jog it. It's not, it's, it's a marathon, not a Sprint, and just pacing myself, learning, learning how to do that better. Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:16

What about you, mike? What did you learn?

Speaker 3: 32:18

Yeah, i think that's definitely an aspect of it. Aside from that, you know, professionally I Collaborate on, i guess you know I would say like technical visions Of you know, different products, and I think this was a collaboration on a creative vision And I think that's that was kind of new to me, you know. So I may have a creative vision, Chris may have something, garrett may have something, and kind of putting those all together and being able to be constructive, you know, in different maybe criticisms or Different ideas and recommendations, and being able to receive and give those You know from, from a perspective outside of that technical sense. I think that was the big one for me.

Speaker 4: 33:05

Hmm.

Speaker 1: 33:06

Yeah, that's fascinating, i mean, especially since you know You both working on You know in engineering and working in IT and such you know you work on things that are not Not your babies, right, like you know it's, it's work, and now this is stuff that you Are creating and bringing it to life, right, and I can see like how that, just that, just that feedback loop might feel different than Getting feedback on some technical specs that you made for work, right, like absolutely, yeah, yeah, garrett, what about you?

Speaker 4: 33:46

I I think I learned that There's a certain type of collaboration that I'm very privy to and and I guess, more so than I thought before. And I guess with this project. You know, oftentimes when I'm working with somebody, you know it'll click and like they'll be happy with what I make, but it won't necessarily feel as even of a collaboration. Maybe it'll be like Someone gave me a little bit to go off of but they're like oh yeah, you totally like this is this is what I wanted. Or maybe they gave me much more and you know I was like doing kind of the uh, i the most commercialized version of what they wanted, maybe not something groundbreaking, but with this type of collaboration it's like I feel like we ended up talking to each other more often than I do with other collaborators And that kind of builds a lot of different avenues for thinking when I approach a project. And, yeah, it's a very interesting type of collaboration that I don't get a lot of And I've learned that I think I like collaboration more than I thought I did previously.

Speaker 1: 34:58

Because yeah.

Speaker 4: 34:59

I definitely like being a homebody, being by myself and working on something, but when I have something to work off of that is strong on its own, that's like a big, big motivator, and yeah, nice.

Speaker 1: 35:16

So the game is in early access right now. Is that correct, or has it launched in early access yet? Not yet July 27th It will be launching early access. Okay, awesome, and I know I talked a little bit about this before, but like so, you're focused on Steam right now, but is there any talk about bringing this to the console, xbox, switch, playstation?

Speaker 2: 35:40

It's always something we're considering. I think right now we're really just focusing on getting that player feedback and kind of building the game to be the best it can be right now and performance things like that, And we're keeping an eye on it and trying to explore other options when we can.

Speaker 1: 35:58

Nice. How can people find more about you guys and follow the progress of the game?

Speaker 2: 36:07

Yeah, i think the best way is. You can head up our website rbagamecom. It's got our Discord on there. Twitter go to our Steam page. Things like that. Wishlisting and following on Steam is probably the best. It helps boost us in Steam's algorithm and lets us know that you wanna play our game. But yeah, Nice.

Speaker 1: 36:33

Any final thoughts?

Speaker 3: 36:35

I'll just add this In terms of checking us all out, i think one of the big things is that we definitely want player feedback. We take that definitely to heart and we want to make, as Chris said, we want to make the game be the best that it can be And so, definitely, if people check out either the demo, which is live now, or early access, if you have any thoughts at all, any way that you think we can make it better, definitely let us know.

Speaker 2: 37:05

A ton of our Discord feedback has made it into the game. So if that's something that you wanna, if you wanna influence a game in a good or a bad way, we'll listen, And that's probably our problem, that we'll listen to all ideas. Some people will say stuff to me as a joke and I'm like but what if? What if we put a butt in the game?

Speaker 1: 37:36

Well, i loved my time with the game at PAX. I thought it was fantastic. You guys are doing such a fantastic job and I'm excited for when this launches in early access, and excited to, as we go on, have you guys come back on the show and talk about the game and what might be coming up next for you guys, too, in the future. So Awesome.

Speaker 2: 37:58

I really appreciate you having us Loved your write up from PAX. It was so good. I like to hear a little sentence or just like talk it from, or look at things from different angles or talk to things from different angles. I like that little lead on. Yeah, so good, thanks for having us on the show.

Speaker 1: 38:14

Appreciate you having us. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for joining me and listeners, check them out. I'll put a link to the Steam page and also to their website as well, so we can wish list the game and check it out. Thanks everyone, bye, bye, see you Cool.